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Latest post 11-10-2008 4:34 AM by IPv6Freely. 13 replies.
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  • 10-24-2008 3:41 AM

    • Maigo
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-24-2008
    • Posts 4
    • Points 95

    CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    hello all,

    im working my way to be a CCIE, im still in the beginning of the road but i want to go for it in the right way and know exactly what's gonna face me up ahead

    i want to ask if taking these 3 courses in a Cisco certified partner training center is enough? 2nd, should i get experiance before i take the CCIE course or is it enough to just take the first 2 courses and go directly for the CCIE course? 3rd, what's the average salaries for fresh CCIEs with no field exprience? btw, the training center gives hands on lab training also, so i thought this would be somethin really good to help me with the exams and experience, and it's a 5 day bootcamp for each course.

    thanks in advance

    • Post Points: 50
  • 10-24-2008 5:22 AM In reply to

    RE: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    Hands-on experience and training is most certainly in integral part of your CCIE pursuit...  However, I'm missing what "these 3 courses" are that you're referring to.  Which three?
     
    Best of luck in your studies!
     


    Scott Morris, CCIE4 #4713, JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
    CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
    Senior CCIE Instructor

    smorris@internetworkexpert.com

     

    Internetwork Expert, Inc.
    http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
    Toll Free: 877-224-8987
    Outside US: 775-826-4344
    Online Community: http://tinyurl.com/6dmnsu
    CCIE Blog: http://tinyurl.com/2nxxaq


    Knowledge is power.
    Power corrupts.
    Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......


    From: ccie-rs-gen@ieoc.com [mailto:ccie-rs-gen@ieoc.com] On Behalf Of Maigo
    Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:46 AM
    To: smorris@internetworkexpert.com
    Subject: [CCIE R&S General] CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    hello all,

    im working my way to be a CCIE, im still in the beginning of the road but i want to go for it in the right way and know exactly what's gonna face me up ahead

    i want to ask if taking these 3 courses in a Cisco certified partner training center is enough? 2nd, should i get experiance before i take the CCIE course or is it enough to just take the first 2 courses and go directly for the CCIE course? 3rd, what's the average salaries for fresh CCIEs with no field exprience? btw, the training center gives hands on lab training also, so i thought this would be somethin really good to help me with the exams and experience, and it's a 5 day bootcamp for each course.

    thanks in advance




    Internetwork Expert - The Industry Leader in CCIE Preparation
    http://www.internetworkexpert.com

    Subscription information may be found at:
    http://www.ieoc.com/forums/ForumSubscriptions.aspx
    • Post Points: 20
  • 10-24-2008 5:25 AM In reply to

    Re: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    There is indeed a pretty big gap between CCNP and CCIE, but it is certainly something that is do-able. Many, many CCIE "passers" follow the Cert path you describe and then pass the lab with no actual field experience in Cisco. 

    I would recommend that you rent or purchase equipment to do extra Hands On outside of your bootcamps at the CCNA and CCNP levels. This will prep you for the massive amount of hands-on practice you will need as you study for the CCIE lab exam. 

    • Post Points: 20
  • 10-24-2008 6:17 AM In reply to

    • Maigo
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-24-2008
    • Posts 4
    • Points 95

    Re: RE: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    CCNA then CCNP (with its's four parts) then CCIE RS, all in the same training center, plus i would like to ask something else, how does the degree in Computer Science help in all this?

    thanks

    • Post Points: 20
  • 10-24-2008 6:24 AM In reply to

    • Maigo
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-24-2008
    • Posts 4
    • Points 95

    Re: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    thanks for this info, i will do so, i have read alot about CCIE, specially the lab exam, and honestly... no encouragment of any kind, but i've never read anything about a path like the one im taking, so, i think its do-able.

    thanks again

    • Post Points: 5
  • 10-24-2008 6:34 AM In reply to

    RE: RE: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    A degree in anything will help from an employer standpoint!   A degree in computer science though teaches a methodical concept of thinking.  That is useful in many areas, but one is networking for the process-oriented things we run across.
     
    Certainly not a requirements, but one that may help along the way!  My degree is in journalism and photojournalism, so in the grand scheme of things do whatever you like or whatever makes sense for your business plans.  :)
     
    As for the classes, it's a good idea to do.  But what will make or break the entire learning experience is the instructor.  So make sure (especially if you are in a market that has more than one training center nearby) that you find out informaion about the instructor(s) for the classes.
     
    Cheers,
     
    Scott
     


    From: ccie-rs-gen@ieoc.com [mailto:ccie-rs-gen@ieoc.com] On Behalf Of Maigo
    Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:21 AM
    To: smorris@internetworkexpert.com
    Subject: Re: [CCIE R&S General] RE: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    CCNA then CCNP (with its's four parts) then CCIE RS, all in the same training center, plus i would like to ask something else, how does the degree in Computer Science help in all this?

    thanks




    Internetwork Expert - The Industry Leader in CCIE Preparation
    http://www.internetworkexpert.com

    Subscription information may be found at:
    http://www.ieoc.com/forums/ForumSubscriptions.aspx
    • Post Points: 20
  • 10-24-2008 9:28 AM In reply to

    • Maigo
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-24-2008
    • Posts 4
    • Points 95

    Re: RE: RE: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    This is enough for the time bieng, i will make sure of what u suggested.

    Thanks for your time and help

    • Post Points: 20
  • 10-31-2008 5:02 AM In reply to

    • IPv6Freely
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-09-2008
    • Pittsburg KS
    • Posts 111
    • Points 1,575

    Re: RE: RE: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    The thought of a CCIE with no experience scares me. But at the same time... knowing that somebody can pass the CCIE lab with no experience just makes me suddenly feel a whole heck of a lot better about myself and my chances of passing :D

    • Post Points: 20
  • 10-31-2008 5:51 AM In reply to

    RE: RE: RE: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    Experience is what you make of it.  To this day, I've done much more complicated and bizzare things in the lab than I have in real-life networks.  And I'm pretty sure that's a good idea!  :)
     
    Knowledge is a baseline.  How you apply it is what makes you good.
     


    Scott Morris, CCIE4 #4713, JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
    CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
    Senior CCIE Instructor

    smorris@internetworkexpert.com

     

    Internetwork Expert, Inc.
    http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
    Toll Free: 877-224-8987
    Outside US: 775-826-4344
    Online Community: http://tinyurl.com/6dmnsu
    CCIE Blog: http://tinyurl.com/2nxxaq


    Knowledge is power.
    Power corrupts.
    Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......


    From: ccie-rs-gen@ieoc.com [mailto:ccie-rs-gen@ieoc.com] On Behalf Of IPv6Freely
    Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 8:06 AM
    To: smorris@internetworkexpert.com
    Subject: Re: [CCIE R&S General] RE: RE: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    The thought of a CCIE with no experience scares me. But at the same time... knowing that somebody can pass the CCIE lab with no experience just makes me suddenly feel a whole heck of a lot better about myself and my chances of passing :D




    Internetwork Expert - The Industry Leader in CCIE Preparation
    http://www.internetworkexpert.com

    Subscription information may be found at:
    http://www.ieoc.com/forums/ForumSubscriptions.aspx
    • Post Points: 20
  • 10-31-2008 11:07 AM In reply to

    • IPv6Freely
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-09-2008
    • Pittsburg KS
    • Posts 111
    • Points 1,575

    Re: RE: RE: RE: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    Well I certainly agree with that. Up until CCIE, you were taught to do things the best and easiest way. Now it's a matter of... you'd better know the technology inside and out because you're going to be asked to do something in a convoluted way that you would never even consider doing in real life.

    But still... I can't even imagine making it all the way to the CCIE level without hands-on experience. Maybe your brain is a sponge and you can just retain everything you read... but I personally need to do something before it sticks.

    • Post Points: 5
  • 10-31-2008 1:47 PM In reply to

    • NTllect
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 07-11-2008
    • CIS
    • Posts 269
    • Points 3,860

    Re: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???


    Gentlemens, I'd like to hear your opinions regarding the following approach that came in my mind.

    Assume, the ultimate goal of our vis-a-vis is expert-level knowledge in any given networking track available at Cisco. The main idea is: would it be better to learn each technology domain separately, one at a time and not earning any interim titles? For example, for R&S track, begin with L2 technologies and moving forward up to L7 IOS features?

    The logic behind this - I'm against any imperfection in understanding what I learn. De facto, what is Cisco's officially recommended learning strategy is in nutshell? It is the way to give us infromation in small portions using buggys, instead of providing a full picture from the start. We also remember, that in old days the only exam was - yes, it is. Yeahh, it's a right and proper way for the Cisco to amplify revenue using hierarchical approach, but it's look like not geeky at all. Last updates in cert path like "CCENT and CCNA track" makes me laugh. Instead of strengthening existing statuses values, instead of investing funds into the war with dumping and improvement of testing software(simulations are looking like toys) they downgrade certification value. Sorry for offtopic there, I think it is very important. At least I think so.

    In general, every newcomer to this field should think at least twice before taking every possible cert Cisco offers. There is always an alternative, I hope not suboptimal, path to the expertise - technology by technology, thus saving time and last, but not least, saving assets. Simple math follows: CCNA will cost you 250$, CCNP 4*150=600, total 850$, excluding study materials costs. Personally I would rather buy IE's excellent materials for even lesser cost(200+400+200) and would be on a half way to become very confident with technology.

    As for approach of visiting CPLSes - I'm completely agree with Scott about this point, that ROI magnitude have tight relation with instructor's level of competency and teaching skills. I think everyone will agree that even mentor know a lot and have a great passion to teach the student, he or she can't give all of information to the student due to the constraints like own memory and physical conditions. In such best cases when instructor performs well, the racks gear is new and cool, every man will face own limit of how much new information he can absorb per hour/day/week. I think that CPLS-leaded courses are very intensive, thus reducing quality of training.

    Anyway, I'm not against official courses, live communication is great and communication with real networker is even greater. But future students should expect that in regards to courses dreams not always come true. A typical attendee of any given course spends time equal to official timing afterpaty, and even much more if he wish to certify on learned technology.

    I would add about quality of materials which tends to be going with each authorized course. Their quality is definitely not as smart as it should be and have many points woth in comparison with authored exemplars. They(official guides) are wrote on a machine language (probable by machines) targeting very(?) professional network operators. For the cost of ICND1/ICND2 courses it is posible to buy all Cisco Press titles, and authors have enough time, talent and materials to organize a book in a most learnable fashion.


    This were my quick insights on the current state of things in the world of knowledge assessment.

    I hope you'll comment on key points I illuminated.

    • Post Points: 20
  • 11-05-2008 6:53 AM In reply to

    • IPv6Freely
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-09-2008
    • Pittsburg KS
    • Posts 111
    • Points 1,575

    Re: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    That definitely would not work for me. If I hadn't done the track in order, it wouldn't have got done. I need a short term goal to focus on. Might work for others though.

    • Post Points: 20
  • 11-10-2008 1:19 AM In reply to

    • abx
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 09-12-2008
    • Posts 22
    • Points 485

    Re: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    my personal belief on this is simple. You DO NOT need to go thru A->P->E at all. I say that because Cisco themselves shoot themselves in the foot by not requiring CCNP as a pre req for CCIE.

    [My Cynical hat on]

    If your starting out in cisco then yes I would recommend a CCNA cert as a start to test you. CCNA is a very difficult exam, why? because it offers the highest past rate of any exam and it is your entry level if you dont have the years in the field. From there you can study for CCNP (ie read the modules) and take practice exams such as p4s. At the end of the day, these test exams are the real exam so to test how far you have come, just take a p4s. There you dont have to shell out dollars for 4 exams IF and ONLY IF your ultimate goal is CCIE.  Most CCIEs will use all available texts which include CCNP level modules to read upon to gain the knowledge anyway. Since braindumps are freely avail, i no longer believe in ccnp exams. I would argue the same for CCNA but there i would give the benefit of the doubt to the person. CCIE lab is truly the only real cisco cert out there that warrants respect because you cant cheat, u really have to know it. 

    [cynical hat off]

    Having said all this, you cant put a price on experience (some would argue that you can put a certification on it!) So gain the exposure and experience in the field as you will need this to call upon during the CCIE i reckon, thats what im relying on.

    • Post Points: 20
  • 11-10-2008 4:34 AM In reply to

    • IPv6Freely
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-09-2008
    • Pittsburg KS
    • Posts 111
    • Points 1,575

    Re: CCNA > CCNP > CCIE???

    Hmmm... no... sorry, I just don't believe in cheating. I learned a LOT during my CCNP studies, so simply discounting them is absolutely ridiculous.

    • Post Points: 5
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